View Poll Results: Allow Player Moderators?
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Old 2012-01-20, 08:37 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by 0.o View Post
Can we please have a list of which individual powers a PM could have? Perhaps a poll so we can select the specific powers we'd be happy for another player who is also a GM to have? I don't think its a matter of whether there should be players with elevated powers to intervene in some cases, but more about what we'd want them to be able to do, and what we would NOT want them to be able to do...
The PM would be able to send messages to someone even while messages are off and the ability to put a character into a temporary bot jail until zstaff can determine if it is correct. Wouldnt want people sending players straight to bot jail no questions asked.
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Old 2012-01-21, 01:30 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Tommit View Post
I feel it would be better than nothing though. What do you recommend to ensure players are not taking advantage of it?
Some suggestions...


When abuse is seen to be deliberate, make any punishment for abusing the position fit the degree of abuse, so it's not profitable to abuse the position.


When someone applies, have them fill out an application which includes questions to make them think about the situations they could find themselves in. Like...

"What would you do if you saw a friend botting?"
"If you find out that a friend of yours uses a bot but you haven't seen them obviously botting, what would you do?".

(Etc.) I'd include one about offers of sexual favours - explicit or implicit - but I'm too tired to think of good wording and that might be going a bit far. Hopefully the answers to a few difficult questions would give a lot more insight into their character than a simple CV.


Have them mod servers they don't play on, maybe in rotation to minimise risk of bias. It probably wouldn't stop them making friends/enemies on those servers but hopefully they'd not feel so strongly about them. That would probably require special PM characters so they're strong enough to go to all areas.


Don't make anyone a PM who logs in from a public computer or who has a dynamic IP address. Make sure the account is a new one, never previously used by anyone else; make sure the IP address gets checked and require prior notification if it's going to be played from any IP address other than the usual one(s). If it's logged in from a different IP address without prior warning the account should get suspended and investigated. So if the account is loaned out / abused the PM is completely responsible for it and can't pretend they were hacked.


The PM should also make it clear when a reply is mandatory in order to avoid botjailing, and have a special colour for the PM channel which is currently unused, i.e. NOT the colour used for system messages or whispers.


One thing that occurred to me today (when I got a lot of whispers in arabic) is that a lot of botters would claim that they didn't answer because they don't understand English - and they might get away with it. So I think we also need a way to ensure *everyone* understands the message, whether they speak English or not, to make sure they have no excuse. Any thoughts on that?

I do hope TQ would follow through on this and try to track down the main accounts of the bots. They might need more staff to do it if this works!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanish View Post
If you were my friend, and you botted? I'd jail you because your ruining my experience. Same as if you were my friend and real life, and you killed someone, id call the cops on your ass.
I'm glad to hear you're so strong-willed and I'd like to think I'd do the same. Most people aren't, though, unless perhaps it involves something that really revolts them (such as murder or child abuse). So many people give in to pressure, loan out gear and/or accounts to new "friends" and have them stolen.
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Old 2012-01-23, 12:03 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Twoflower View Post
Some suggestions....(Colored typing)

When abuse is seen to be deliberate, make any punishment for abusing the position fit the degree of abuse, so it's not profitable to abuse the position.

See thats where it gets complicated...if someone gets their earnings and spends them and also has bought cps no real way to tell the difference. Can't exactly bot jail someone for this since they are not botting. The permanent loss of status means they can never be PM again and for most this will defer thier choices of abuse. But if you can think up some consequences I'd like to hear them. I've tried and pemanent PM ban is all I can really think of.

When someone applies, have them fill out an application which includes questions to make them think about the situations they could find themselves in. Like...

"What would you do if you saw a friend botting?"
"If you find out that a friend of yours uses a bot but you haven't seen them obviously botting, what would you do?".

(Etc.) I'd include one about offers of sexual favours - explicit or implicit - but I'm too tired to think of good wording and that might be going a bit far. Hopefully the answers to a few difficult questions would give a lot more insight into their character than a simple CV.


Prior to becoming a PM there would have to be a briefing in which the rules and standards are set and explained to them prior to their acceptance and modification. These would all be explained and went over with player prior to becoming a PM. Anyone can lie in a questionaire so explaining it would be best option in my opinion.

Lol, favors...I can see this one now "Hey Ill lay in your level 3 house bed for 5 minutes or do obscene interactions with you in the market if you let me bot" or maybe "hey ill send you a random nude pic of some girl online because I'm actually a guy playing a female character" lol. Sorry to poke fun at it but thats how I see it
But on a more serious note: yes they would have to be fully aware any bribes or coercions would result in immediate consequences.

Have them mod servers they don't play on, maybe in rotation to minimise risk of bias. It probably wouldn't stop them making friends/enemies on those servers but hopefully they'd not feel so strongly about them. That would probably require special PM characters so they're strong enough to go to all areas.

The biggest concern here is not with people making friends and enemies, it is finding a true unbiased player to fill the position. I can tell in this forum some of these guys are not biased and then there are some that are. So like I've stated before there is more promise of a player trying to fix the server they play on to ensure less lag and bots are in it then a server they won't even touch unless they are PM'ing in it. Like the suggestion of an all new character prior, would you rather play your main or the PM more?

Don't make anyone a PM who logs in from a public computer or who has a dynamic IP address. Make sure the account is a new one, never previously used by anyone else; make sure the IP address gets checked and require prior notification if it's going to be played from any IP address other than the usual one(s). If it's logged in from a different IP address without prior warning the account should get suspended and investigated. So if the account is loaned out / abused the PM is completely responsible for it and can't pretend they were hacked.


Agreed completely, a PM should be able to log in from their IP the majority of the time. However recently I was hacked somehow and had to change all security information and I have a private computer on a Private network and do not share information with anyone. So I don't know how they do it but nobody is immune to hackers.

The PM should also make it clear when a reply is mandatory in order to avoid botjailing, and have a special colour for the PM channel which is currently unused, i.e. NOT the colour used for system messages or whispers.

Well matches in arena last 5 minutes, so to make it simple the PM will post to the player 1 time and says you have 5 minutes to reply to this post because I feel you are botting, your reply is necessary to avoid being placed in botjail failure to do so will result in bot jail. Then after the 5 minutes timer is up (the message should include times in the PM channel) the PM will send another message. if not replied to one last message will be sent saying you will now be placed in bot jail. If a player has not responded to all this then there is no excuse...they are botting. Yes the color shoudl be different and as stated will appear even with all chats off.

One thing that occurred to me today (when I got a lot of whispers in arabic) is that a lot of botters would claim that they didn't answer because they don't understand English - and they might get away with it. So I think we also need a way to ensure *everyone* understands the message, whether they speak English or not, to make sure they have no excuse. Any thoughts on that?

Upon the acceptance and transition to becoming a PM the PM will recieve a list of questions and sentences in multiple languages to ensure they can ask people in other languages if they are botting and know the words in which they reply. Hopefully this will make it possible for the language barrier to be broken. I ask my friends to translate stuff for me and that always works out well.

I do hope TQ would follow through on this and try to track down the main accounts of the bots. They might need more staff to do it if this works!

If PM's caught bots as they were sent out eventually the admins could catch on to the IP's these characters come from especially when it is the same ip for multiple bots.

I'm glad to hear you're so strong-willed and I'd like to think I'd do the same. Most people aren't, though, unless perhaps it involves something that really revolts them (such as murder or child abuse). So many people give in to pressure, loan out gear and/or accounts to new "friends" and have them stolen.

I am same way...friend, foe, or neutral...if I catch you botting your gone. I hate this lag, I hate the ammount of time it takes to do quest, and I hate the way people go from nothing to tops by setting out bots. So all bots would be banned by me whoever they may be.
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Last edited by Tommit83; 2012-01-23 at 08:48 PM..
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Old 2012-01-23, 06:48 PM   #24
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All this color coding is making me sick
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Old 2012-01-24, 11:34 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommit View Post
When abuse is seen to be deliberate, make any punishment for abusing the position fit the degree of abuse, so it's not profitable to abuse the position.

See thats where it gets complicated...if someone gets their earnings and spends them and also has bought cps no real way to tell the difference. Can't exactly bot jail someone for this since they are not botting. The permanent loss of status means they can never be PM again and for most this will defer thier choices of abuse. But if you can think up some consequences I'd like to hear them. I've tried and pemanent PM ban is all I can really think of.
I'm sure TQ can tell the difference between bound CPs and unbound CPS, and they have records of trades.

If someone clearly abused their position in a major way, such as temp botjailing people so they (or their friends) could win a tournament / guild war, then the prizes could be taken from them, or items to the value of the prizes, or they could have to buy point cards to the value of the prizes. Winning team PK that way (for example) would be more than equivalent to db fraud because the prize includes dbs *and* a lot of other goodies such as lottery tickets and horse race points. So just losing their status as PM wouldn't be enough punishment for something like that, imo.

That would be in addition to permanently losing their PM status, of course.


Quote:
When someone applies, have them fill out an application which includes questions to make them think about the situations they could find themselves in. Like...

"What would you do if you saw a friend botting?"
"If you find out that a friend of yours uses a bot but you haven't seen them obviously botting, what would you do?".

(Etc.) I'd include one about offers of sexual favours - explicit or implicit - but I'm too tired to think of good wording and that might be going a bit far. Hopefully the answers to a few difficult questions would give a lot more insight into their character than a simple CV.


Prior to becoming a PM there would have to be a briefing in which the rules and standards are set and explained to them prior to their acceptance and modification. These would all be explained and went over with player prior to becoming a PM. Anyone can lie in a questionaire so explaining it would be best option in my opinion.
Anyone can lie in a questionnaire, but sometimes you can spot the lies, just as you can sometimes when talking to someone in-game. I had to fill in a questionnaire something like that before becoming a mod on another forum several years ago...it seemed to work pretty well.


Quote:
Lol, favors...I can see this one now "Hey Ill lay in your level 3 house bed for 5 minutes or do obscene interactions with you in the market if you let me bot" or maybe "hey ill send you a random nude pic of some girl online because I'm actually a guy playing a female character" lol. Sorry to poke fun at it but thats how I see it
I had a friend who asked if I'd like to see a picture of him...and unexpectedly sent me a picture he took with his mobile, of him naked, wa*king. (We are no longer friends!) Skype = free video calls over the internet...

Quote:
But on a more serious note: yes they would have to be fully aware any bribes or coercions would result in immediate consequences.

Have them mod servers they don't play on, maybe in rotation to minimise risk of bias. It probably wouldn't stop them making friends/enemies on those servers but hopefully they'd not feel so strongly about them. That would probably require special PM characters so they're strong enough to go to all areas.

The biggest concern here is not with people making friends and enemies, it is finding a true unbiased player to fill the position. I can tell in this forum some of these guys are not biased and then there are some that are. So like I've stated before there is more promise of a player trying to fix the server they play on to ensure less lag and bots are in it then a server they won't even touch unless they are PM'ing in it. Like the suggestion of an all new character prior, would you rather play your main or the PM more?
I'd rather play the PM and mod a server I don't normally play on, now I come to think of it. Some of the convicted botters on my server have much stronger characters than mine (such as L140 full +12) and I don't want to keep losing too much exp. But that wasn't my main reason for suggesting it.

Quote:
Don't make anyone a PM who logs in from a public computer or who has a dynamic IP address. Make sure the account is a new one, never previously used by anyone else; make sure the IP address gets checked and require prior notification if it's going to be played from any IP address other than the usual one(s). If it's logged in from a different IP address without prior warning the account should get suspended and investigated. So if the account is loaned out / abused the PM is completely responsible for it and can't pretend they were hacked.


Agreed completely, a PM should be able to log in from their IP the majority of the time. However recently I was hacked somehow and had to change all security information and I have a private computer on a Private network and do not share information with anyone. So I don't know how they do it but nobody is immune to hackers.
Sorry to hear you got hacked.

A few months ago I started getting spam which appears to be from TQ, despite having cancelled all those e-mails from TQ on all my accounts some time ago. When I first started getting them again I went to the Help Desk: York told me they're not actually from TQ and that I should change my passwords etc..

The strange thing is, the accounts all have different e-mail addresses (a security precaution) and I only ever used them to set up the accounts, then wrote them down in a notebook. I don't have them held on my pc in any form. So the list of addresses can only have been obtained from TQ. Be *very* careful about opening e-mails which appear to be from TQ, they may not be what they seem. And if you use a preview pane for your mail, that is equivalent to opening the e-mail.

Imagine the damage a hacker could do with access to a PM account.


Quote:
The PM should also make it clear when a reply is mandatory in order to avoid botjailing, and have a special colour for the PM channel which is currently unused, i.e. NOT the colour used for system messages or whispers.

Well matches in arena last 5 minutes, so to make it simple the PM will post to the player 1 time and says you have 5 minutes to reply to this post because I feel you are botting, your reply is necessary to avoid being placed in botjail failure to do so will result in bot jail. Then after the 5 minutes timer is up (the message should include times in the PM channel) the PM will send another message. if not replied to one last message will be sent saying you will now be placed in bot jail. If a player has not responded to all this then there is no excuse...they are botting. Yes the color shoudl be different and as stated will appear even with all chats off.
Team PK matches (and probably some others) can last 20 mins, and sometimes you get sent *straight into* another match without even a minute to re-stock on pots. (That happened to me last time I was able to do it.)

Quote:
One thing that occurred to me today (when I got a lot of whispers in arabic) is that a lot of botters would claim that they didn't answer because they don't understand English - and they might get away with it. So I think we also need a way to ensure *everyone* understands the message, whether they speak English or not, to make sure they have no excuse. Any thoughts on that?

Upon the acceptance and transition to becoming a PM the PM will recieve a list of questions and sentences in multiple languages to ensure they can ask people in other languages if they are botting and know the words in which they reply. Hopefully this will make it possible for the language barrier to be broken. I ask my friends to translate stuff for me and that always works out well.
That would work if you get a reply. If they don't understand you they might not reply.

Quote:
I do hope TQ would follow through on this and try to track down the main accounts of the bots. They might need more staff to do it if this works!

If PM's caught bots as they were sent out eventually the admins could catch on to the IP's these characters come from especially when it is the same ip for multiple bots.
The problem is that multiple people can play in the some household and it's hard to disprove. I know of a convicted botter on our server whose CO-playing family seems to get bigger every time he gets caught.

Quote:
I'm glad to hear you're so strong-willed and I'd like to think I'd do the same. Most people aren't, though, unless perhaps it involves something that really revolts them (such as murder or child abuse). So many people give in to pressure, loan out gear and/or accounts to new "friends" and have them stolen.

I am same way...friend, foe, or neutral...if I catch you botting your gone. I hate this lag, I hate the ammount of time it takes to do quest, and I hate the way people go from nothing to tops by setting out bots. So all bots would be banned by me whoever they may be.
You won't catch me botting: I don't do it.
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Old 2012-03-22, 02:16 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twoflower View Post
I'm sure TQ can tell the difference between bound CPs and unbound CPS, and they have records of trades.

If someone clearly abused their position in a major way, such as temp botjailing people so they (or their friends) could win a tournament / guild war, then the prizes could be taken from them, or items to the value of the prizes, or they could have to buy point cards to the value of the prizes. Winning team PK that way (for example) would be more than equivalent to db fraud because the prize includes dbs *and* a lot of other goodies such as lottery tickets and horse race points. So just losing their status as PM wouldn't be enough punishment for something like that, imo.

That would be in addition to permanently losing their PM status, of course.




Anyone can lie in a questionnaire, but sometimes you can spot the lies, just as you can sometimes when talking to someone in-game. I had to fill in a questionnaire something like that before becoming a mod on another forum several years ago...it seemed to work pretty well.




I had a friend who asked if I'd like to see a picture of him...and unexpectedly sent me a picture he took with his mobile, of him naked, wa*king. (We are no longer friends!) Skype = free video calls over the internet...



I'd rather play the PM and mod a server I don't normally play on, now I come to think of it. Some of the convicted botters on my server have much stronger characters than mine (such as L140 full +12) and I don't want to keep losing too much exp. But that wasn't my main reason for suggesting it.



Sorry to hear you got hacked.

A few months ago I started getting spam which appears to be from TQ, despite having cancelled all those e-mails from TQ on all my accounts some time ago. When I first started getting them again I went to the Help Desk: York told me they're not actually from TQ and that I should change my passwords etc..

The strange thing is, the accounts all have different e-mail addresses (a security precaution) and I only ever used them to set up the accounts, then wrote them down in a notebook. I don't have them held on my pc in any form. So the list of addresses can only have been obtained from TQ. Be *very* careful about opening e-mails which appear to be from TQ, they may not be what they seem. And if you use a preview pane for your mail, that is equivalent to opening the e-mail.

Imagine the damage a hacker could do with access to a PM account.




Team PK matches (and probably some others) can last 20 mins, and sometimes you get sent *straight into* another match without even a minute to re-stock on pots. (That happened to me last time I was able to do it.)



That would work if you get a reply. If they don't understand you they might not reply.



The problem is that multiple people can play in the some household and it's hard to disprove. I know of a convicted botter on our server whose CO-playing family seems to get bigger every time he gets caught.



You won't catch me botting: I don't do it.
dude im able to read ur post only when im replaying dont use yellow or other bright collor
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Old 2012-03-25, 12:36 PM   #27
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simple the PMs have to write reports on what they saw and what hack was used they send the player into bot jail and then the GM of that server reads the reports and chooses what action to take after reading the report (or vid) and if the report is not propperly done X many times and X many times people get bot jailed for not enough proof that person loses there PM status.
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Old 2012-03-27, 12:23 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by User330565203 View Post
simple the PMs have to write reports on what they saw and what hack was used they send the player into bot jail and then the GM of that server reads the reports and chooses what action to take after reading the report (or vid) and if the report is not propperly done X many times and X many times people get bot jailed for not enough proof that person loses there PM status.
Agreed...PM's will reduce botting greatly.
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Old 2012-03-27, 05:18 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by User330565203 View Post
simple the PMs have to write reports on what they saw and what hack was used they send the player into bot jail and then the GM of that server reads the reports and chooses what action to take after reading the report (or vid) and if the report is not propperly done X many times and X many times people get bot jailed for not enough proof that person loses there PM status.
agree couse cous many boters goes to main citys when help desk is off
that way many players wont feel helpless when botter comes to their lvling/hunting spawn
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Old 2012-03-27, 02:41 PM   #30
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Ok sooo keep us in touch whenever I can send my resume to apply for this job =)
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