[~KhAoS~]

Originally Posted by Remix

nerf monk's wwk tooo much range

range - good
spam stun - bad
dc people - bad

AeOs suck but hey compared to herc this is perfect. hell even the damage is reasonable since beads are weaker than tro weaps...

[PatternistSlave]

@OP. With comparable gears wwk kindof tickles. Who would I point and laugh at if you took it away? I'd like to see other classes be able to unsoulshackle though.

@Everyone else. Grammar nazi's make baby Jesus cry.

[Impulse~]

Originally Posted by PatternistSlave

@OP. With comparable gears wwk kindof tickles. Who would I point and laugh at if you took it away? I'd like to see other classes be able to unsoulshackle though.

@Everyone else. Grammar nazi's make baby Jesus cry.

Your joking, right? If they are higher BP, you can't even do anything to them. If they are lower BP but still within 10, your damage is lowered so significantly that you can't 1 hit them or sometimes even 2 hit them.
Full +12 King monk with no STGs and a level 70 ninja armor and archer plume
VS
Full +12 King trojan with no STGs and completely maxed out gears, critical refineries with grim hammers.
The monk will hit the trojan for anywhere from 10-14k, yet the stigged trojan is lucky to even hit 10k. How does it make sense that a monk with a level 70 armor and headgear takes less damage than a trojan with completely maxed out everything.
The problem is that monks have this very spammable skill, I believe you know it, whirlwind kick? Did you know it is only 10% less damage than herc, BUT it has a massive stun to replace that damage, making it insanely easy to use wwk in quick succession. Even if they don't 1 hit you the first time, they will the second time if you are still low. And if more than 1 monk is attacking you, or a monk and a fire tao, don't even try to fight back because you'll be stun locked until the monk is out of stamina. Now add onto this the fact that guards are available to every class. which many monks use. Normally it wouldn't be a big deal, but when you can't move, well... nuf said.

[MonsterDo]

kinda makes you miss when we're all only complaining about fires huh, now we have all these stupid nonsense.

[Impulse~]

Originally Posted by MonsterDo

kinda makes you miss when we're all only complaining about fires huh, now we have all these stupid nonsense.

Yea... everyone's attack keeps going up, yet no classes defense has been raised to be proportional to that increase other than warrior. Which makes warrior a super power in itself if geared properly. Take on top of this the overpowered nado of fires, herc of trojans, wwk of monks and tfb for ninjas and you've got an unbalanced game.

[PatternistSlave]

Originally Posted by Impulse~

Your joking, right? If they are higher BP, you can't even do anything to them. If they are lower BP but still within 10, your damage is lowered so significantly that you can't 1 hit them or sometimes even 2 hit them.
Full +12 King monk with no STGs and a level 70 ninja armor and archer plume
VS
Full +12 King trojan with no STGs and completely maxed out gears, critical refineries with grim hammers.
The monk will hit the trojan for anywhere from 10-14k, yet the stigged trojan is lucky to even hit 10k. How does it make sense that a monk with a level 70 armor and headgear takes less damage than a trojan with completely maxed out everything.
The problem is that monks have this very spammable skill, I believe you know it, whirlwind kick? Did you know it is only 10% less damage than herc, BUT it has a massive stun to replace that damage, making it insanely easy to use wwk in quick succession. Even if they don't 1 hit you the first time, they will the second time if you are still low. And if more than 1 monk is attacking you, or a monk and a fire tao, don't even try to fight back because you'll be stun locked until the monk is out of stamina. Now add onto this the fact that guards are available to every class. which many monks use. Normally it wouldn't be a big deal, but when you can't move, well... nuf said.

I'm not plus 12, but this is not at all my experience in skill pk and this is not at all what a plus 12 in the regular forum is saying.

Me Vs. a monk with comparable BP. They wwk. I laugh and jump out of it. They wwk. I laugh and jump out of it. They wwk. I laugh. They wwk kick again. I laugh. I Dragonwhirl. One hit. They're dead.

Me Vs. a monk with way more BP. They wwk. I Dragonwhirl. They one hit me or I one hit them.

Me Vs. a monk in skill pk. They wwk. I take almost no dmg at all. I laugh. Two hit with herc while they are wwking me or one hit with dragonwhirl.

You're right. That doesn't make sense. Which is why there is likely a reason for it you are not properly relaying although I don't think defense plays much of a factor anyway so probebly doesn't matter what type of armor they're using so long as they have the same BP. Probebly that increased critical skill they have. So they're hitting a critical while you're not. But at any rate. Trojan is not meant to be a tank. Plus 12 in the other forum is saying wwk will never one hit max trojan (which 14k sure shouldn't) while stig dragonwhirl one hits a max monk. Not to mention you can do two hercs in the time they do one wwk anyway. So say they do wwk you for 14k. You herc them while they're doing it. 20k. They're dead. Not sure why you would ever have a problem with said monk. Yes. I am dead serious. Aside from soul shackle even monks with better gears than me are not much of a threat at all comparatively. They are for you and it's likely a problem with you and not the game itself.

[~Matt~]

Originally Posted by PatternistSlave

I'm not plus 12, but this is not at all my experience in skill pk and this is not at all what a plus 12 in the regular forum is saying.

Me Vs. a monk with comparable BP. They wwk. I laugh and jump out of it. They wwk. I laugh and jump out of it. They wwk. I laugh. They wwk kick again. I laugh. I Dragonwhirl. One hit. They're dead.

Me Vs. a monk with way more BP. They wwk. I Dragonwhirl. They one hit me or I one hit them.

Me Vs. a monk in skill pk. They wwk. I take almost no dmg at all. I laugh. Two hit with herc while they are wwking me or one hit with dragonwhirl.

You're right. That doesn't make sense. Which is why there is likely a reason for it you are not properly relaying although I don't think defense plays much of a factor anyway so probebly doesn't matter what type of armor they're using so long as they have the same BP. Probebly that increased critical skill they have. So they're hitting a critical while you're not. But at any rate. Trojan is not meant to be a tank. Plus 12 in the other forum is saying wwk will never one hit max trojan (which 14k sure shouldn't) while stig dragonwhirl one hits a max monk. Not to mention you can do two hercs in the time they do one wwk anyway. So say they do wwk you for 14k. You herc them while they're doing it. 20k. They're dead. Not sure why you would ever have a problem with said monk. Yes. I am dead serious. Aside from soul shackle even monks with better gears than me are not much of a threat at all comparatively. They are for you and it's likely a problem with you and not the game itself.

Your joking right? while your stunned from wwk you cannot herc once, never mind twice. Monks with equal BP have a massive advantage with defence, regardless whether they are wearing 140 monk armour or level 70 tao robe like someone else said, the monk class is bugged to have more attack, defence, m-defence than they should. Heck, monks with lower BP can quite easily one hit tro's with higher bp without breakthrough or crit by simply getting triple kick to activate. That's 300% damage, 390% if the monk is stigged. And a monk that's worth anything can get a triple kick in 8 times out of 10 while you are stunned from WWK.

[PatternistSlave]

Originally Posted by ~Matt~

Your joking right? while your stunned from wwk you cannot herc once, never mind twice. Monks with equal BP have a massive advantage with defence, regardless whether they are wearing 140 monk armour or level 70 tao robe like someone else said, the monk class is bugged to have more attack, defence, m-defence than they should. Heck, monks with lower BP can quite easily one hit tro's with higher bp without breakthrough or crit by simply getting triple kick to activate. That's 300% damage, 390% if the monk is stigged. And a monk that's worth anything can get a triple kick in 8 times out of 10 while you are stunned from WWK.

My cpu is too crappy to do video, but see if I can get someone to record it for me. Done it many many times. I'm starting to grasp the problem you're all having. Wwk is very escapable. I do it all the time. I feel weird having to explain to a bunch of plus 12's how to do it. So why don't you just experiment yourself. It's very easy.

[~KhAoS~]

Originally Posted by PatternistSlave

My cpu is too crappy to do video, but see if I can get someone to record it for me. Done it many many times. I'm starting to grasp the problem you're all having. Wwk is very escapable. I do it all the time. I feel weird having to explain to a bunch of plus 12's how to do it. So why don't you just experiment yourself. It's very easy.

i get what you are saying that they are whinning because they are dying to people better than them and all but as you stated if properly geared laughing off wwks is no problem at all. my only issue with wwk is the dcing and when 5+ monks spam it on you.... sure the damage of that (AND HERC) could be less but as a +12 i dont mind

[PatternistSlave]

Originally Posted by ~KhAoS~

i get what you are saying that they are whinning because they are dying to people better than them and all but as you stated if properly geared laughing off wwks is no problem at all. my only issue with wwk is the dcing and when 5+ monks spam it on you.... sure the damage of that (AND HERC) could be less but as a +12 i dont mind

Yeah. That seems to be the major source of the whining although it seems like there are also some that don't know how to fight monks properly and just stand there letting themselves be continuously hit, which I was honestly surprised by.

I've never been disconnected because of wwk, but I believe it. I dragonwhirl through terrain that normally would stop me and it will just dc sometimes. Invalid jumps still happen although less than they used to. Hopefully TQ will work on glitches like that.

Delaying the opponent has its advantage, but the "stun" of wwk when countered properly is not much more than zap and less than speed arrow which have the advantage of not placing the user within range of a counterattack and not having a cooldown.

I think the damage of wwk and herc is fine. Neither one hit even a non defensive character unless there is a pretty radical difference in equips like you said. I like a little variety and herc was completely unusable with lessened damage. Wwk pretty much is now aside from against archers and monsters.

If I had to nitpick against monks it would be about soul shackle and perhaps the overall volume and wide variety of skills they get despite not much of a lack of attack or defense.